TO: JIM, ALEX, FRIGGA & BLOGS BROWSER:
Sorry guys it took so long, but here's the responses to the post of earlier this past week. I'm slow...I know.
At
Aug 31, 2007 1:58:00 AM,
Dumb Ass DailyIn regards to scenario #1, this whole thing is just another witch hunt by the democrats. Technically no law has been broken, so how can any criminal charges be filed? If the case were to go to court and the prosecution was to actually win, just think of the effect that would have on society as we know it. By setting a precedent, none of us would ever be able to hit up on someone in public ever again. No flirting with someone at the bar, no asking a waitress or waiter for their number, etc. as it would all be considered soliciting for sex.
As for scenario #2, well...that's a prime example of how drug use can cause bad things to happen. As for whether or not it's rape, I think that one would boil down to how the judge or jury decided to see it. She obviously wasn't objecting to the sex in the beginning, so obviously she was consensual to it at that point. The fact she didn't know who it was in her bed with her is strictly a lack of responsibility on her part.
On the other hand it could be viewed as an illegal entry, at which point anything that transpired after said perpetrator entered the premises could be construed as an illegal act. My guess is that the boyfriend got all pissed off at her about having sex with someone else (intentionally or not) so she's playing the rape card to cover her own ass and save her relationship with her BF.This is exactly why I think the whole "Date Rape" law is complete and total bullshit. While I'm certain that there are some legit date rapes that occur, it's also all too easy for it to be abused. Rape cases are one area where the defandent is almost always assumed guilty until proven innocent.What's worse is that the facts of such cases are strictly limited to the testimony of the two people involved, so it all boils down to who's story to believe, his or hers. And as we all know, when it comes to rape cases the guy's screwed unless there's a mountain of physical evidence or eye witness testimony to prove otherwise.
Scenario #3 Girl goes out on the town with her girlfriends, gets all liquored up, and ends up hooking up with some guy and goes home with him. They have consensual sex, she goes home, guy goes to sleep.The next day the girls boyfriend finds out (from her friends) that she left with another guy and didn't get in until that morning. Boyfriend confronts her about it and to save her own ass she claims she was drunk and passed out and he raped her. Girl files rape charges, the guys arrested and they go to court. Mind you neither has any evidence to prove whether it was consentual sex or rape. Who do you think the judge or jury is going to side with? Needless to say the guy's screwed. Not only will he be put in prison for 5-10 years, but he'll also be labelled a sexual predator for the rest of his life...all because some girl wanted to cover her own ass with her boyfriend.Welcome to our wonderfully sympathetic judicial system!
At
Aug 31, 2007 5:25:00 AM,
sunshinecityOoooh, what great scenarios you bring forward.. feels like a game!
Well, if I'm allowed to give my two Euro cents' worth.. lemme just say this.For scenario 1, i.e. the closet gay senator... well. What's the big deal anyways? I think people need to get over the huge scandal of GAY. It's just two people of the same sex doing it.. so what? Big deal. I mean sure.. it's not my cup of tea, fine. But to each their own I guess right? Given that it's not proper to be having sex in public places, let alone where other people can hear and/or see you, and given the fact that this guy is married and cheating on his wife, with a MAN (lol, poor Mrs. Idaho senator, having to find out that way that her hubby is gay...) I think the issue here is, as usual, the fact that people feel cheated. They feel cheated that a person who is supposed to represent his constituents, a person who supposedly stands up for family values, is in all reality living a lifestyle that goes against the morals he himself preaches.Add to that the bigotry of the pure white America that is against same-sex sex... that sure makes for an explosive headline!
I'm not sure if you call any part of that as illegal. I mean, as you say, if it's supposedly consensual, where's the harm in that? Of course, you'd probably still be running into all those public decency laws etc... I'm not too informed in the laws there...I say, get over it though LOL
As for the 2nd scenario... well, now that's a tricky one. I definitely don't consider it rape though... if "you" are too drunk/high/asleep to realize that they guy in bed with you isn't your boyfriend, then that's really your problem. Sure, if and when she said STOP to the guy, and he didn't stop, now that's another thing. I think it's up to the girl to realize who's in bed next to her... it's not like he tied her up and gagged her.
I saw get off the pot/coke/booze and keep your man closer to you LOL*gets off her soap box*
At
Aug 31, 2007 12:06:00 PM,
FRIGGAFirst, I agree about the Senator. Yes, it's very wrong for him to cheat on his wife - but why are the Liberals bashing him for being gay?
Second - YIKES! Given the facts as you laid them out I would say it was rape. The roommate went in knowing what he was doing. When I'm asleep, it may seem like I've woken up and I may even talk to you, but I am in fact still asleep and won't remmember the conversation in the morning. That would be rape.
Very interesting Q's! :P
At
Sep 2, 2007 6:44:00 PM, blogs browser
scenario #2 hmmmm thats a hard one. the sneaking man is guilty of something, thats fo-sho, ha ha ha to use your lingo. but some men are daring, God! supposing the boyfriend heard what was going on and went for a kitchen knife and stabbed "his friend" in the back, would he be guilty?
At
Sep 3, 2007 10:41:00 PM,
HeatherLynnI should have answered you guys sooner..but there's so much to say:
Jim ~ Frankly...the way I see it...I need to solicit more, not less. The thing that gets me is, why in the hell would he not consult an attorney prior to giving a plea on this? With some crafty lawyering this whole thing could have most likely been dropped anyway...(I totally just sounded like someone who works in a law firm didn't I?)
#2 - I agree on the lack of responsibility. We all should know who we are sleeping with to SOME extent. There are a bunch of ways this could go...but I'm thinking rape would be an over-statement. This doesn't fit the bill in my eyes as to what rape is. He definately was wrong at least in a hundred different ways here...(sleeping with a buddy's g/f, letting himself in, doing drugs, etc.)As for your views on Date Rape....I'm not sure they are complete bullshit...granted, any law has it's flaws and anytime you are dealing with a he-said-she-said incident, your margin of error is greater. However, going on trial for the woman can be just as evasive for the woman doing the accusing as for the man accused. It's not like it used to be....where the woman was the saint and the man the automatic sinner.
I've seen cases in my time where some "crazy bitch" was being spiteful and accusing someone of something they didn't do. I've seen it, I have....and it's not fair that some people carry the shame of being a sexual preditor for the rest of their days. Consequences are real, and they are everlasting in sex crimes. But honestly, the laws in place are meant to protect....and they are laws with good intentions. Our society is flawed in it's crimals and in it's perfection at law making. We just have to work out the bugs.
At
Sep 3, 2007 10:50:00 PM,
HeatherLynnAlex ~ Sometimes it's all about the headline I think. Does anyone really care (besides his wife/family/friends) that he's gay...if in fact he truly is? I don't. What does it say to his constituents that he voted against gay marriage...was his sexual preference interfering with his job? Was he still representing publicly what he publicly presented himself as being? Just some food for thought...
as for #2..you and me both. If/when she said STOP...he stopped...not rape....rape is about consent....regardless of who you think you are screwing....if you went into it blind and said "do me baby"...I think you have to carry at least a little responsibility.
Life ain't easy...taking responsibility for your actions is the only good sometimes.
At
Sep 3, 2007 11:03:00 PM,
HeatherLynnFrigga ~ Liberals..and this is no way bashing THEM..well, they like to all jump on any headline that has a Republican fucking up. It's the monster known as politics. I think it's nauseating when they all gang up on each other and be like "you suck"...."NO, you do!" If politicians spent as much time bashing each other as they did practicing diplomacy and compromise, we'd live in such a more progressive country. Democrats and Republicans have been engaged in this idiocy for what seems like FOREVER? The future of our country doesn't lie with either party...it relies on them both. I don't know why THEY can't see that. You know that old saying, it takes a village to raise a child, it takes more than one man, one party, or one administration to revive this nation, it's going to take everyone.
Interesting take on the second scenario....I however don't agree with you...which please don't take offense to....but I do understand. I know I am ONE chatty person....and my motor mouth doesn't start going until I've had my morning coffee and it's after 10:30 am.....I agree we aren't ourselves when awoke from sleeping...but here's a question for you....the guy who crawled into bed, couldn't he say that he didn't know who's bed he was crawling into? He was under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol....maybe he thougth that girl was his g/f and he was just crawling into his own bed?
Of course there is no right or wrong answer here...I just love the input you guys offer...it's good stuff. Keep it coming.
At
Sep 3, 2007 11:09:00 PM,
HeatherLynnBlogs Browser ~ I love it when you make fun of my fancy lingo! ;)
Yeah, he's guilty of stupidity if you ask me....is being stupid against the law now? lol In some cases it should be...however...I really don't know exactly who's to blame for what on this one...It would be interesting to see what happened in the end I suppose...or to be a fly on the wall when it all went down.
Stabbing a friend in the back...well, good question....if you found some guy screwing your g/f in the middle of the night in YOUR house....and she was screaming for help...who's to say he wouldn't get off the hook....the law is tricky...who knew what and when is always the determining factor....and sometimes, there's only ONE person who knows the answer to that...yet we rely on 12 strangers to decide the answer. It's pretty intense this whole legal business.
~hl~